Aliens

Bush Senior isn't dead either!!!!!

That's what I want you to think

Anyways, I still wouldn't mind getting this thread locked. Cause if people are going to 'vote' together whether or not to listen, then this isn't any sort of 'individuality matters' -type forum. I do hope I'm wrong, cause otherwise Shemuel would be the perfect epitome of what a message board about FlashTrek really SHOULDN'T be. No longer about personal opinion, but rather voting on actions like a group collective (think Borg). Don't worry though. I'm not prepared to attack innocents. Just liberate them from people like you, Shem

Okay, after that little rant, I'm ready to get back ON TOPIC. I may not have locking powers, but I'll easily delete this thread if it comes down to the topic going off. Now, I suggest everybody stay on topic from here on out PLEASE. Or you'll find yourself on the floor screaming in agony and pain as blood pours out of your neck like a fountain. Don't say I didn't warn you

About the 'rather large supposition' that's really all this discussion CAN be. There is no such thing as tangible proof that aliens or the Illuminati exist. End of story. We can only make up theories and use our imaginations. Even if you don't seriously believe it, it's still a fun idea to poke around with, especially when writing. They're all great ideas.

I guess the Illuminati would greatly oppose the anti-christ... the Illuminati want world domination, but they want their world domination. it's like Hitler and Genghis Khan working together: impossible.

That would be the beauty in the plan. Something so sinister even I wouldn't have tried it at first. See, no matter what their purpose is, they're attempting to gain power. If the anti-christ is born in that group or joins it sometime in his life, then he can easily 'turn the people with his words', and turning a powerful group like the Illuminati on his side would be dangerous.

Of course, then you have to wonder if the Illuminati were so powerful, why haven't they taken over the world yet? It still leaves open the possibility that they are actually waiting for a single leader that can change the world's opinion to their side. According to most Illuminati theories, they caused a lot of tragedies in an attempt to make the people more afraid and open to the Illuminati's takeover. But so far because of the existence of these theories we can say for certain that it isn't working, and that they won't succeed until they get somebody that can 'turn the people' with only 'his words'. That would be the Anti-Christ.

i belive there is a secret underground goverment trying to take over but if that happened it would be like the movie equlibrium

I love that movie XD

Also, I'd like to mention how a secret society had come to get a name like 'Illuminati' as some of you immediately think of some university students or something like that. Here's the real Illuminati. It supposedly broke apart sometime around 1785, but who knows? That was after it was discovered.

This movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria), by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830),[2] who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt.[3] The movement was made up of freethinkers, as an offshoot of the Enlightenment[4], which some believe was a conspiracy to infiltrate and overthrow the governments of many European states[5]. The group's adherents were given the name "Illuminati", although they called themselves "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Illuminati Order and the Bavarian Illuminati, and the movement itself has been referred to as Illuminism (after illuminism). In 1777, Karl Theodor, Elector Palatine, succeeded as ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of Enlightened Despotism and in 1784, his government banned all secret societies, including the Illuminati.

While it was not legally allowed to operate, many influential intellectuals and progressive politicians counted themselves as members, including Ferdinand of Brunswick and the diplomat Xavier von Zwack.[6] Xavier von Zwack was also the number two man in the operation and was caught with much of the group's documentation when his home was searched. The Illuminati's members pledged obedience to their superiors, and were divided into three main classes, each with several degrees.

The order had its branches in most countries of the European continent; it reportedly had around 2,000 members over the span of 10 years.[7] The scheme had its attraction for literary men, such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder, and even for the reigning dukes of Gotha and Weimar. Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was effected by The Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government in 1785.

Otherwise, a 'modern day' depiction of the Illuminati as a secret society can best be found in Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, and Metal Gear Solid (under the name 'the Patriots', the 'secret society' in MGS is very similar to the above mentioned Illuminati)

Or you could refer to Opus Dei or possibly the Freemasons, although the freemasons are an accepted group.

Nah, but neither are those German illuminati he was talking about. and Opus Dei still exist. A powerful politician in Britain is a member.

Here is my first manifest on this thread:

About the alien thing:
1st - Yes, I believe on aliens, as the Universe is way too big to the point were we only exist;
2nd - If they exist, and they had visited us in the past, I think that they had controled main moments on Earth history. I think that they offered us developments of such importance that influenced mankind (the fire, the weel, etc), they influenced our history, posing as gods ( Egipcian gods, Greek gods, Rome gods, God itself, etc, etc, etc), killing certain bad persons which strange diseases (like the one in Moises history) and made many more things.
3rd - I do not, REALLY, I DO NOT believe in secret military bases like Area 51. If they are so evolved, they can prevent accidents that give to anyone top technology.
4th - I really do not understand, If they already visited us, why don't they show up! We already know what is the number pi! We already know how to fly. We already explore the universe (a very tiny part of it). Why don't they show up! (Maybe it is because that our population doesn't have the same rights and duties).

About the illuminaty thing:
1st - As I know, the illuminati don't wanted to conquer the world. They want to spread their ideas, like freedom, equality and fraternity (It was the illuminaty that created the ideals of the French revolution) and that everyone should have some scientific knowledge. (Unless the spread of their ideas is their way of conquer the world).
2nd - I'm sure that if there is any actual member of the iluminaty, he abominates Hittler!
3rd - As I also know, the illuminaty have, has main religion Christianity (But they also might have member of other religions).

Shemuel wrote:Nah, but neither are those German illuminati he was talking about. and Opus Dei still exist. A powerful politician in Britain is a member.

Well, the reason why so many people believe that the Illuminati would be a world domination effort is because of the organization being 1) top secret, and 2) has a belief of illuminism (which is the belief that they have ascended to a higher plane of existence). The Illuminati was disbanded in 1785, but who the heck knows for sure? Although it's like saying, how do you know history books are telling the whole truth? Then you wonder how many newspapers and such tell both sides of a story and show the whole picture?

I see skepticism, and I'm still skeptical as well. I think what JPB believes about the Illuminati would make more sense to me. But alas, it's not a stretch of the imagination for Christians to believe they're there for world domination. Even the Anti-Christ will claim that he's for world peace. As long as he has power throughout the world, like the belief that the Illuminati influence these other countries (either with peaceful purposes or otherwise), he could easily use said organization to take over.

But for those that don't believe in Christianity, find your own alternatives to this theory, I don't care. Only time will tell the truth, not predictions.

JPB18 wrote:3rd - I do not, REALLY, I DO NOT believe in secret military bases like Area 51. If they are so evolved, they can prevent accidents that give to anyone top technology.

If you mean you don't believe it's there, then that's like saying as you're falling off the Empire State Building that you're not going to hit the bottom. It's THERE, but this belief that they have a connection to aliens IS something to be more skeptical about. Bah, time travel is still a stretch of imagination, and without that the only way to prevent 'accidents' like you said from happening would be to kill those that try to take the technology.

All we know of Area 51 for a fact is that it's an Air Force base where they've tested multiple new spy planes. Can't say for certain however if it's an alien facility.

4th - I really do not understand, If they already visited us, why don't they show up! We already know what is the number pi! We already know how to fly. We already explore the universe (a very tiny part of it). Why don't they show up! (Maybe it is because that our population doesn't have the same rights and duties).

Because the majority of humans, who continue to be close-minded about such things would scream and become afraid. Most likely they will listen to some of those 'abductees' and assume the aliens are here as some kind of invasion, then either the aliens would have to wipe us out or we would wipe them out. Reason why the government keeps it a secret? The same.

Maybe you and I are open-minded. And yes, there are several thousand (perhaps several hundred thousand) in America and/or the world that can be open-minded about such things, but that's still a very tiny part of the world's population. We're just not ready to discover that we're not alone in the universe, at least not by aliens ON EARTH. If we discover them on another planet, then there's a good chance it'll be covered up but at the same time we wouldn't be as scared.

1st - As I know, the illuminati don't wanted to conquer the world. They want to spread their ideas, like freedom, equality and fraternity (It was the illuminaty that created the ideals of the French revolution) and that everyone should have some scientific knowledge. (Unless the spread of their ideas is their way of conquer the world).

Say 'as I believe' or don't even bother. The Illuminati were freethinkers, so that is very true. But it's ironic that this happened: 'Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was effected by The Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government in 1785.' Seems that people saying they want freedom actually don't want it then, huh?

Whatever the case, we can't say for certain, although it was meant as an aftermath of the Enlightment Age with all kinds of discoveries and open-mindedness would be a forefront. But still, it was a secret society for some reason, and they believed themselves to be 'enlightened on a spiritual plane'. Those two things alone lend some suspicion, but there's no tangible way to know what they were really planning unless we have papers of their plans and such.

3rd - As I also know, the illuminaty have, has main religion Christianity (But they also might have member of other religions).

They would have abolished Hitler, I agree. But if their main religion is Christianity... Well, most likely the majority of them were Christians yes. But they wouldn't force everyone to believe the way they do, otherwise that's not spreading ideas of 'freedom, equality, and fraternity'.

JPB18 wrote:3rd - I do not, REALLY, I DO NOT believe in secret military bases like Area 51. If they are so evolved, they can prevent accidents that give to anyone top technology.

If you mean you don't believe it's there, then that's like saying as you're falling off the Empire State Building that you're not going to hit the bottom. It's THERE, but this belief that they have a connection to aliens IS something to be more skeptical about. Bah, time travel is still a stretch of imagination, and without that the only way to prevent 'accidents' like you said from happening would be to kill those that try to take the technology.

All we know of Area 51 for a fact is that it's an Air Force base where they've tested multiple new spy planes. Can't say for certain however if it's an alien facility.

When I said that I do not believe in area 51, I was talking about the histories around that particular base, as I believe in the existence of that base as area 51, but as the "Las Vegas Defensive Base" (name attributed by me).
And yes, I also know that it is a test area (do you also know that NASA has a small department on area 51 that make top secret tests).


[quote]

4th - I really do not understand, If they already visited us, why don't they show up! We already know what is the number pi! We already know how to fly. We already explore the universe (a very tiny part of it). Why don't they show up! (Maybe it is because that our population doesn't have the same rights and duties).

Because the majority of humans, who continue to be close-minded about such things would scream and become afraid. Most likely they will listen to some of those 'abductees' and assume the aliens are here as some kind of invasion, then either the aliens would have to wipe us out or we would wipe them out. Reason why the government keeps it a secret? The same.

Maybe you and I are open-minded. And yes, there are several thousand (perhaps several hundred thousand) in America and/or the world that can be open-minded about such things, but that's still a very tiny part of the world's population. We're just not ready to discover that we're not alone in the universe, at least not by aliens ON EARTH. If we discover them on another planet, then there's a good chance it'll be covered up but at the same time we wouldn't be as scared.

Well, "I don't think that they travelled 90000000000 light years to fight" (quote from Independence Day), so, I think that what people call as "sexual abuses by aliens" can just be a form to discover more about human phisiology (they just make it to us like they make to other sentient beings). I don't think that if they show up it will be to exterminate mankind.
And thanks the "beings in the higher planes that we can call gods" that exist open-minded persons, as those peoples make the world evolve faster, and I think that other people need to embrace that open-minded state of spirit if mankind wants to meet them face to face, we need to evolve mentally, and, it is proved that open-minded persons have a bigger thinking capacity than those who believe that things must be like the sacred book says (per example). So, if all mankind had a open spirit, I think that then, we were ready to meet them.

1st - As I know, the illuminati don't wanted to conquer the world. They want to spread their ideas, like freedom, equality and fraternity (It was the illuminaty that created the ideals of the French revolution) and that everyone should have some scientific knowledge. (Unless the spread of their ideas is their way of conquer the world).

Say 'as I believe' or don't even bother. The Illuminati were freethinkers, so that is very true. But it's ironic that this happened: 'Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was effected by The Secular Edict made by the Bavarian government in 1785.' Seems that people saying they want freedom actually don't want it then, huh?

Whatever the case, we can't say for certain, although it was meant as an aftermath of the Enlightment Age with all kinds of discoveries and open-mindedness would be a forefront. But still, it was a secret society for some reason, and they believed themselves to be 'enlightened on a spiritual plane'. Those two things alone lend some suspicion, but there's no tangible way to know what they were really planning unless we have papers of their plans and such.

3rd - As I also know, the illuminaty have, has main religion Christianity (But they also might have member of other religions).

They would have abolished Hitler, I agree. But if their main religion is Christianity... Well, most likely the majority of them were Christians yes. But they wouldn't force everyone to believe the way they do, otherwise that's not spreading ideas of 'freedom, equality, and fraternity'.

It was a bad chose of words that part of "As I know", but as I refered before, there are people which prefer that other people think be themselves (and 18th century was still one of those eras that some people still wanted to live by the "old principles".

Have you ever heard about inquisition (This is a translating from my language as I don't know how other countries call it) In latter years after the French revolution inquisition had still power in Europe (and I heard about some clandestines "arms" of the inquisition that spread their powers to countries that thought that they were free from that organization, but it is just a small rumor)

What I wanted to say is that the majority of the members are Christians (as you well understanded), and they must had a more open-mended to other religions (they could allow people with various religions, or even people without religion).

I see. I agree with all your assessments then, no doubt about it! I seriously doubt that Area 51 is a place for alien research (that just seems to me to be stretching reality too much), but alas it is still an awesome idea to toy with. Like many others, stories have been written about the place, declaringly fictional, but still very great to read. I don't take these theories seriously (though I did theorize once, but only time can tell and until then since there's nothing I can do about it, I'm not putting any seriousness to it)

And yes, people need to be a little more open-minded. Not to the point of gullibility but just so they don't immediately brush aside any explanations. What's wrong with preparing, for example, for a flash flood that may or may not happen? If it happens, you'll be safe, but if it doesn't happen, you won't have lost anything. Though some preparations require sacrifice, one should at least stay open-minded to the possibilities and not simply brush them off until they go in and get the facts.

Alas, I do hope that any aliens that might be visiting earth (or will) will certainly stay away until either humans get their act together, or until there's no humans on this planet to worry about.

Alas, I do hope that any aliens that might be visiting earth (or will) will certainly stay away until either humans get their act together, or until there's no humans on this planet to worry about.

I prefer the first one to the last one. the last one is somewhat scaring.

Also, when we find for the first time an more advanced sentient being, I prefer that they are in their culture more like the Asgard or the vulcans (Cause the asgard are peaceful, until someone attack them, and the vulcans are to concentrated in their quest for complete knowledgethet they don't have a military fleet, being so, peaceful)

But returning to the reality and to the topic, I also think that if we find other sentient beings,wont be in our homeworld, but with 2 ships armed to the tooth face to face or in a future colony.

yeah, knowing some of the assh*les who lead countries on our planet, we they probably be stupid and declare war.

XD Accursed english, every word seems to have many meanings. Or at least the majority of them. Well, aliens from outer space, yes. Though not necessarily from outer space, more or less any sentient creature of human intelligence or greater that is NOT human. And notice I said sentient. Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive subjectively. When talking about 'aliens', sentient usually stands to mean: often ascribed qualities such as will, desire, consciousness, ethics, personality, intelligence, insight, and so on.

I believe aliens are real and have visited earth: reason? I have seen a UFO. I was only 8 years old when I saw it. It was a light that stopped moving and got real bright, then dim again. then it vanished.

Galaxy-Scarface wrote:I believe aliens are real and have visited earth: reason? I have seen a UFO. I was only 8 years old when I saw it. It was a light that stopped moving and got real bright, then dim again. then it vanished.

Where you assleap ou someone fouled you with a lightbolb? Really, if the aliens decided to visit Earth, I think that they are capable of cloacking like the Scimitar.